Discussion:
There is more to Mexican food than recipes
(too old to reply)
Wayne Lundberg
2003-09-25 22:59:11 UTC
Permalink
Mexican food is a cultural thing, it's more than recipes. I keep banging on
this subject hoping to give our faithful a bit more pleasure in life even if
some accuse me of 'forcing' my opinions on others. The right to speak is
equal to the right to be heard in any argument. And this forum has been and
hopefully will continue to be a place to share thoughts, ideas and opinions.

So....

Mexican food includes cultural aspects that differ from European, Spanish,
California, New York, etc. In the United States the overwhelming majority of
people eat in order to live. In effect, they wake in the morning, grab an
egg sandwich, work, grab a McDonalds, work, go home, bake a pizza, watch TV
and go to bed. All in the name of fulfilling their daily life functions.

In Mexico we wake at 8 have a pan dulce with chocolate at 9, work, have a
corn tortilla taco with birria at 10, work, have a beer and some cheese &
crackers t 12, work, lunch from 2 to 3 or 3.30, nap from 4 to 5, work till
9, munch on leftovers watching tv or yaking with the family, and go to bed
at 10 or later. Our whole life revolves around the eating business because
that early morning bread and chocilate is with the wife and kids, the
midmorning snack is with fellow workers or associates as are all the rest of
the meals.

Mexican eating habits are so different from Americans that recipes alone do
not shed an ounce of similarity. In order for anybody to truly appreciate
Mexican food, one must also accept and learn to enjoy the TIME and SOCIAL
elements of Mexican culture.

I come to this newsgroup often, looking for neat and interesging recipes I
can try on my family and friends and am often rewarded. Linda is the most
prolific of all in this setting and I have enjoyed her lessons to the T. A1
WBarfieldsr is like a machine gun spewing out an endless litany of recipes
without a word on where they should be used and with what wine or cheese, or
at what time, or anything to do with the culture. I'm sure his recipes are
wonderful and taste great. But what about the baby's diaper? Does it smell
yet? Does it need changing? Is the time right? What else goes with it? Why?

You are missing out, dear friends, if you do not also learn the timing, the
combinations, the festivities, the color, sound and smells from the Mexican
kitchen. Make an effort to see the fabulous movie of Agua Como Chocolate,
(Water as Chocolate) in your native language. You will be taking the first
step toward learning a whole new cultural aspect to eating. Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.

Wayne
Linda
2003-09-25 23:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Mexican food is a cultural thing, it's more than recipes. I keep banging on
this subject hoping to give our faithful a bit more pleasure in life even if
some accuse me of 'forcing' my opinions on others. The right to speak is
equal to the right to be heard in any argument. And this forum has been and
hopefully will continue to be a place to share thoughts, ideas and opinions.
So....
Mexican food includes cultural aspects that differ from European, Spanish,
California, New York, etc. In the United States the overwhelming majority of
people eat in order to live. In effect, they wake in the morning, grab an
egg sandwich, work, grab a McDonalds, work, go home, bake a pizza, watch TV
and go to bed. All in the name of fulfilling their daily life functions.
In Mexico we wake at 8 have a pan dulce with chocolate at 9, work, have a
corn tortilla taco with birria at 10, work, have a beer and some cheese &
crackers t 12, work, lunch from 2 to 3 or 3.30, nap from 4 to 5, work till
9, munch on leftovers watching tv or yaking with the family, and go to bed
at 10 or later. Our whole life revolves around the eating business because
that early morning bread and chocilate is with the wife and kids, the
midmorning snack is with fellow workers or associates as are all the rest of
the meals.
Mexican eating habits are so different from Americans that recipes alone do
not shed an ounce of similarity. In order for anybody to truly appreciate
Mexican food, one must also accept and learn to enjoy the TIME and SOCIAL
elements of Mexican culture.
I come to this newsgroup often, looking for neat and interesging recipes I
can try on my family and friends and am often rewarded. Linda is the most
prolific of all in this setting and I have enjoyed her lessons to the T. A1
WBarfieldsr is like a machine gun spewing out an endless litany of recipes
without a word on where they should be used and with what wine or cheese, or
at what time, or anything to do with the culture. I'm sure his recipes are
wonderful and taste great. But what about the baby's diaper? Does it smell
yet? Does it need changing? Is the time right? What else goes with it? Why?
You are missing out, dear friends, if you do not also learn the timing, the
combinations, the festivities, the color, sound and smells from the Mexican
kitchen. Make an effort to see the fabulous movie of Agua Como Chocolate,
(Water as Chocolate) in your native language. You will be taking the first
step toward learning a whole new cultural aspect to eating. Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.
Wayne
You are absolutely right Wayne! This was how my husband was until he came
here to the US and
got corrupted by marrying me. :) When we first got married, he couldn't not
eat a dinner at
4:30 or % in the afternoon. He also wasn't into Bacon and eggs in the
morning either, opting
instead to have some pan dulce and coffee so strong that it would make
Starbucks look pale.
Things had to change, we don't have all that time to leisure about with naps
et al...I was
working, there was no way I was going to be cooking dinner to eat at 9 at
night, I wanted to be asleep
at 9 pm...
So now we are going into our 30th year of marriage, and he likes his
Bacon/Ham and eggs, hash browns
on Sat. and Sun Mornings...He still opts to a donut or pan dulce with coffee
in the morning, but now he's
drinking a more mellow type of coffee, and doesn't get so wired up with it.
:) Also now he likes to eat dinner at 5 pm
and goes to bed on an empty stomach. (I grew up with the belief that
sleeping on a full stomach
is not good for you) Still feel that way, because if I eat anything say
after 7 pm, I can't sleep.
Of course around the holidays we stay traditional, half and half, like on
Good Friday make
tortas de camarones con nopales in red chile sauce or dapriotada, and on
Easter Sunday we have
pork roast with sauerkraut (I'm German) And at Xmas, I make tamales with
atole for Xmas Eve and
On Xmas day we have roast beef, etc, etc.
But yes Wayne, you're absolutely right about the cultural aspect of eating..

Linda
Dimitri
2003-09-26 14:40:27 UTC
Permalink
"Wayne Lundberg" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3rKcb.158567$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

<Snip>
Post by Wayne Lundberg
You are missing out, dear friends, if you do not also learn the timing, the
combinations, the festivities, the color, sound and smells from the Mexican
kitchen. Make an effort to see the fabulous movie of Agua Como Chocolate,
(Water as Chocolate) in your native language. You will be taking the first
step toward learning a whole new cultural aspect to eating. Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.
Wayne
Alguna gente nunca entenderá.
They are just born "Gringos" and Gringos they will die.
Dimitri
mrs j peters
2003-09-26 15:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Lundberg
You are missing out, dear friends, if you do not also learn the timing, the
combinations, the festivities, the color, sound and smells from the Mexican
kitchen.
most definitely! so, you wanna send me a plane ticket? ;)~
A1 WBarfieldsr
2003-09-26 17:43:11 UTC
Permalink
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico. I would get rid of any employees that gold bricked like that, it is not productive or efficient. We even watch the bathroom time and water fountain time. We pay workers to work not eat. A 15 minute break in the morning, 30 Minutes for lunch, and 15 minutes in the afternoon is enough breaks for any plant. Our workers report for work at 7 and get off at 3, unless they have to work overtime, which is most of the time. Our workers work to live not eat to live. When I ran the operations I always put in 12-16 hour days, my sons run things now and they, as well other top supervisory staff do the same.When you retire as I have, then you can enjoy life. Until then the business is your life. If you don't believe in hard work and long hours you will have nothing when it is time to quit working. As far as cooking, my wife does most of the cooking. I have been enjoying her cooking now for 38 years. Most of it is Mexican style, not authentic I'm sure, but it taste good.
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Mexican food is a cultural thing, it's more than recipes. I keep banging on
this subject hoping to give our faithful a bit more pleasure in life even if
some accuse me of 'forcing' my opinions on others. The right to speak is
equal to the right to be heard in any argument. And this forum has been and
hopefully will continue to be a place to share thoughts, ideas and opinions.
So....
Mexican food includes cultural aspects that differ from European, Spanish,
California, New York, etc. In the United States the overwhelming majority of
people eat in order to live. In effect, they wake in the morning, grab an
egg sandwich, work, grab a McDonalds, work, go home, bake a pizza, watch TV
and go to bed. All in the name of fulfilling their daily life functions.
In Mexico we wake at 8 have a pan dulce with chocolate at 9, work, have a
corn tortilla taco with birria at 10, work, have a beer and some cheese &
crackers t 12, work, lunch from 2 to 3 or 3.30, nap from 4 to 5, work till
9, munch on leftovers watching tv or yaking with the family, and go to bed
at 10 or later. Our whole life revolves around the eating business because
that early morning bread and chocilate is with the wife and kids, the
midmorning snack is with fellow workers or associates as are all the rest of
the meals.
Mexican eating habits are so different from Americans that recipes alone do
not shed an ounce of similarity. In order for anybody to truly appreciate
Mexican food, one must also accept and learn to enjoy the TIME and SOCIAL
elements of Mexican culture.
I come to this newsgroup often, looking for neat and interesging recipes I
can try on my family and friends and am often rewarded. Linda is the most
prolific of all in this setting and I have enjoyed her lessons to the T. A1
WBarfieldsr is like a machine gun spewing out an endless litany of recipes
without a word on where they should be used and with what wine or cheese, or
at what time, or anything to do with the culture. I'm sure his recipes are
wonderful and taste great. But what about the baby's diaper? Does it smell
yet? Does it need changing? Is the time right? What else goes with it? Why?
You are missing out, dear friends, if you do not also learn the timing, the
combinations, the festivities, the color, sound and smells from the Mexican
kitchen. Make an effort to see the fabulous movie of Agua Como Chocolate,
(Water as Chocolate) in your native language. You will be taking the first
step toward learning a whole new cultural aspect to eating. Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.
Wayne
Dimitri
2003-09-26 18:24:14 UTC
Permalink
"A1 WBarfieldsr" <***@HOT.rr.com> wrote in message news:PU_cb.113836$***@twister.austin.rr.com...
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.

Are you really that ignorant?


I would get rid of any employees that gold bricked like that, it is not
productive or efficient. We even watch the bathroom time and water fountain
time. We pay workers to work not eat. A 15 minute break in the morning, 30
Minutes for lunch, and 15 minutes in the afternoon is enough breaks for any
plant. Our workers report for work at 7 and get off at 3, unless they have
to work overtime, which is most of the time. Our workers work to live not
eat to live. When I ran the operations I always put in 12-16 hour days, my
sons run things now and they, as well other top supervisory staff do the
same.

USPS right? (US Postal Service)

When you retire as I have, then you can enjoy life. Until then the business
is your life. If you don't believe in hard work and long hours you will have
nothing when it is time to quit working. As far as cooking, my wife does
most of the cooking. I have been enjoying her cooking now for 38 years. Most
of it is Mexican style, not authentic I'm sure, but it taste good.


Right!

Dimitri

<snip>
A1 WBarfieldsr
2003-09-26 21:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.
Are you really that ignorant?
Where in Mexico can you compare Mexico's industrial giants to Detroit, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, LA.
Why are Mexicans sneaking across the U.S. border in droves for work, if Mexico has the big industrial giants. Why is the dollar in Mexican currency so low compared to the U.S. currency. I feel for the people of Mexico as a whole. If they took control of their government, more money would be in the peoples pocket instead of the President and other government officials pockets. I'm not saying Mexico doesn't have industry, but to compare it to the U. S., now who is ignorant?
Wayne Lundberg
2003-09-26 22:19:21 UTC
Permalink
I can't help it. Sorry gang, but this A1 has really gone over the edge. A1,
you are a smart guy, but obviously so jaded with your own smell that I can
see you whiffing your underarm and even admiring your toilet paper after
being used. You are so arrogantly stupid and misinformed that it is
pathetic. The biggest glass manufacturer in the world is from Mexico. The
greatest sales in wonderful liquors come from Mexico (Tequila, in case you
did not know), 80%of US manufacturing has gone to Mexico because of higher
quality standards, lower labor costs, and happy employees working 48 hour
weeks. You don't like it and you show it. Why do you hate Mexicans as much
as you show yet seem to love their food??????

You certainly suffer from self love and the arrogance of ignorance and
surely paradigm paralysis.

Bye

Wayne
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.
Are you really that ignorant?
Where in Mexico can you compare Mexico's industrial giants to Detroit,
Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, LA.
Why are Mexicans sneaking across the U.S. border in droves for work, if
Mexico has the big industrial giants. Why is the dollar in Mexican currency
so low compared to the U.S. currency. I feel for the people of Mexico as a
whole. If they took control of their government, more money would be in the
peoples pocket instead of the President and other government officials
pockets. I'm not saying Mexico doesn't have industry, but to compare it to
the U. S., now who is ignorant?
Dimitri
2003-09-26 22:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.
Are you really that ignorant?
Where in Mexico can you compare Mexico's industrial giants to Detroit,
Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, LA.
Why are Mexicans sneaking across the U.S. border in droves for work, if
Mexico has the big industrial giants. Why is the dollar in Mexican currency
so low compared to the U.S. currency. I feel for the people of Mexico as a
whole. If they took control of their government, more money would be in the
peoples pocket instead of the President and other government officials
pockets. I'm not saying Mexico doesn't have industry, but to compare it to
the U. S., now who is ignorant?

You still are!

Of course

There are no cars made in Mexico - Right?
No batteries made?
No oil Pumped or refined.
If it is such a poor society how come it is the largest expanding foreign
market for Wal Mart. That's cause they have no super markets - Right.
No agribusiness. Where you think much of your produce comes from.
And you've never seen Hecho en Mexico on a label or a product.
No beer Brewed - Right
No hospitals, Schools, Universities And of course the Air in Mexico City is
pristine 'cause they have no industry or cars and trucks to pollute the air.

What is their GNP?
How do they rank in the industrialized world?

Talking to you is like dueling with an unarmed man.

Do your homework.

Dimitri
Kramer
2003-09-26 22:59:13 UTC
Permalink
"A1 WBarfieldsr" <***@HOT.rr.com> wrote in message news:4l2db.127130$***@twister.austin.rr.com...

Where in Mexico can you compare Mexico's industrial giants to Detroit,
Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, LA.
Why are Mexicans sneaking across the U.S. border in droves for work, if
Mexico has the big industrial giants. Why is the dollar in Mexican currency
so low compared to the U.S. currency. I feel for the people of Mexico as a
whole. If they took control of their government, more money would be in the
peoples pocket instead of the President and other government officials
pockets. I'm not saying Mexico doesn't have industry, but to compare it to
the U. S., now who is ignorant?




Anybody that posts non-Mexican recipes in this newsgroup is ignorant.
Yes, I'm talking about you A1 WBarfieldsr.
Dimitri
2003-09-26 22:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.
Are you really that ignorant?
<Ingnorant Drivle snipped>

Here is what the World Bank says about Mexico:
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/external/lac/lac.nsf/Countries/Chile/3DCF2C99FC4A9EE485256BFE00676616?OpenDocument


Mexico has made remarkable progress in terms of human development:

Income per capita is $5,070 (2000 figures), the highest in Latin America
Life expectancy at birth has risen to 72 years
Under-five mortality rate dropped from 46 to 29 per 1,000 between 1990 and
2000
Almost three-quarters of Mexico's 100 million people live in urban areas
86 percent have access to clean water
Lliteracy rate is over 90 percent

Want more? READ!

Dimitri
Jim Lane
2003-09-26 23:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.
Are you really that ignorant?
Where in Mexico can you compare Mexico's industrial giants to Detroit, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, LA.
Why are Mexicans sneaking across the U.S. border in droves for work, if Mexico has the big industrial giants. Why is the dollar in Mexican currency so low compared to the U.S. currency. I feel for the people of Mexico as a whole. If they took control of their government, more money would be in the peoples pocket instead of the President and other government officials pockets. I'm not saying Mexico doesn't have industry, but to compare it to the U. S., now who is ignorant?
Hmmm, Tijuana is the home and manufacturing site for televisions. More
are made and exported from this one city than the REST OF THE WORLD
COMBINED. Just where does Detroit match that?

Your ethnocentrism shows clearly, A1. I PITY the people that work for
you. You, on the other hand, are contemptable. And your statements run
from bigorty at the mildest to incipient racism on the other end.


jim
Wayne Lundberg
2003-09-26 18:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Cada quien a su gusto. I just wanted to share another point of view on
enjoying life.

Wayne

"A1 WBarfieldsr" <***@HOT.rr.com> wrote in message news:PU_cb.113836$***@twister.austin.rr.com...
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico. I would
get rid of any employees that gold bricked like that, it is not productive
or efficient. We even watch the bathroom time and water fountain time. We
pay workers to work not eat. A 15 minute break in the morning, 30 Minutes
for lunch, and 15 minutes in the afternoon is enough breaks for any plant.
Our workers report for work at 7 and get off at 3, unless they have to work
overtime, which is most of the time. Our workers work to live not eat to
live. When I ran the operations I always put in 12-16 hour days, my sons run
things now and they, as well other top supervisory staff do the same.When
you retire as I have, then you can enjoy life. Until then the business is
your life. If you don't believe in hard work and long hours you will have
nothing when it is time to quit working. As far as cooking, my wife does
most of the cooking. I have been enjoying her cooking now for 38 years. Most
of it is Mexican style, not authentic I'm sure, but it taste good.
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Mexican food is a cultural thing, it's more than recipes. I keep banging on
this subject hoping to give our faithful a bit more pleasure in life even if
some accuse me of 'forcing' my opinions on others. The right to speak is
equal to the right to be heard in any argument. And this forum has been and
hopefully will continue to be a place to share thoughts, ideas and opinions.
So....
Mexican food includes cultural aspects that differ from European, Spanish,
California, New York, etc. In the United States the overwhelming majority of
people eat in order to live. In effect, they wake in the morning, grab an
egg sandwich, work, grab a McDonalds, work, go home, bake a pizza, watch TV
and go to bed. All in the name of fulfilling their daily life functions.
In Mexico we wake at 8 have a pan dulce with chocolate at 9, work, have a
corn tortilla taco with birria at 10, work, have a beer and some cheese &
crackers t 12, work, lunch from 2 to 3 or 3.30, nap from 4 to 5, work till
9, munch on leftovers watching tv or yaking with the family, and go to bed
at 10 or later. Our whole life revolves around the eating business because
that early morning bread and chocilate is with the wife and kids, the
midmorning snack is with fellow workers or associates as are all the rest of
the meals.
Mexican eating habits are so different from Americans that recipes alone do
not shed an ounce of similarity. In order for anybody to truly appreciate
Mexican food, one must also accept and learn to enjoy the TIME and SOCIAL
elements of Mexican culture.
I come to this newsgroup often, looking for neat and interesging recipes I
can try on my family and friends and am often rewarded. Linda is the most
prolific of all in this setting and I have enjoyed her lessons to the T. A1
WBarfieldsr is like a machine gun spewing out an endless litany of recipes
without a word on where they should be used and with what wine or cheese, or
at what time, or anything to do with the culture. I'm sure his recipes are
wonderful and taste great. But what about the baby's diaper? Does it smell
yet? Does it need changing? Is the time right? What else goes with it? Why?
You are missing out, dear friends, if you do not also learn the timing, the
combinations, the festivities, the color, sound and smells from the Mexican
kitchen. Make an effort to see the fabulous movie of Agua Como Chocolate,
(Water as Chocolate) in your native language. You will be taking the first
step toward learning a whole new cultural aspect to eating. Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.
Wayne
A1 WBarfieldsr
2003-09-27 23:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Cada quien a su gusto. I just wanted to share another point of view on
enjoying life.
Wayne
What I was trying to point out in my regretfully crude way, was there IS a big difference in the lifestyle of Americans as opposed to the lifestyle in Mexico. I had to make time to be with my family and when that time was up there was still work to finish. I would take off long enough to watch a late night ball game that one of my kids played in, only to go back to work and finish my job after the game at 11:00 P.M., and be ready for the next day by 5:30 A.M. Some days they ran together and I slept a couple of hours at the office. It was rough and I had misgivings at times, but now I can do just about anything I want to do. I haven't lived in Mexico and I certainly don't hate Mexicans. To the contrary, I wish the people of Mexico only the best of times. I do believe the Mexican people will start to be more like their U.S. counterparts with the new trade agreements. As far as the way you describe Mexican eating and the way Americans eat, I just don't see how you can get it all done in one day. BTW I'm 56 not 70 years old. Google for Barfield and check out the clan, and no we are not the USPS.
Wayne Lundberg
2003-09-28 04:10:16 UTC
Permalink
"A1 WBarfieldsr" <***@HOT.rr.com> wrote in message news:pppdb.31704
snip...
. As far as the way you describe Mexican eating and the way Americans eat, I
just don't see how you can get it all done in one day. BTW I'm 56 not 70
years old. Google for Barfield and check out the clan, and no we are not the
USPS.
snip...

This is a tough topic to get across to any American wanting to do business
in Mexico. Over the past three and a half years I have been lecturing CEOs
on the benefits of setting up operations in Mexico, buying and selling, etc.
to take advantage of the NAFTA rules for both countries. When it comes to
making these CEOs understand the huge chasm in cultures I have to hit them
over the head with a two by four. They simply can't grasp the idea that when
their host tells them they will be picked up at the hotel at nine, and the
host does not show until quarter to ten, that this is a gesture of
friendship and concern on the part of the host. It is not an insult. It is
meant to give the American a bit more time for a second cup, or to sleep in
an extra half hour. But Americans, when this happens to them, turn their
backs on the Mexicans and it is the end of a potentially good business. Also
the thing about food. I have to repeat a dozen times the cultural thing
about the mid-day lunch. It is for getting to know each other and not for
closing the deal as we are so used to in this country. To talk business
during that two hour lunch is to act as a used car salesman and it will
result in the loss of any kind of trustworthy relationship thereafter. So I
guess I do come across as a lecturer when talking about the cultural aspects
of Mexican cuisine and customs.
It goes back to genes. We Nordic, Saxon, Vikings had to come up with the
food for the full year in only a few months. So hurry, hurry, hurry is the
name of the game. Deadlines. Project management. Innovation. Those are our
strengths and games. The Latino only had to stick their arm out the window
and pull in a grape, fruit, a loaf of bread, a fish with minimum effort and
the food was there year round. So a kind of slow-motion set into the body
genes and it's still there. That's why you see 20 million super rich
Mexicans, 60 million in the middle, and 20 million still on the ranch but
quite happy to be there even without money since they don't actually
function in the money society.

Bye

Wayne in Chula Vista
Jim Lane
2003-09-26 23:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico. I would get rid of any employees that gold bricked like that, it is not productive or efficient. We even watch the bathroom time and water fountain time. We pay workers to work not eat. A 15 minute break in the morning, 30 Minutes for lunch, and 15 minutes in the afternoon is enough breaks for any plant. Our workers report for work at 7 and get off at 3, unless they have to work overtime, which is most of the time. Our workers work to live not eat to live. When I ran the operations I always put in 12-16 hour days, my sons run things now and they, as well other top supervisory staff do the same.When you retire as I have, then you can enjoy life. Until then the business is your life. If you don't believe in hard work and long hours you will have nothing when it is time to quit working. As far as cooking, my wife does most of the cook
ing. I have been enjoying her cooking now for 38 years. Most of it is Mexican style, not authentic I'm sure, but it taste good.
Talk about a Theory X anal retentive workplace, you have described it
and yourself very well, A1.


jim
The Ranger
2003-09-27 04:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
Our workers work to live not eat to live.
Yeah.

Right.

I don't know which "industry" you participated in but that's pretty outdated
thinking... Thankfully.
Post by A1 WBarfieldsr
When I ran the operations I always put in 12-16 hour days
Unless it was _your_ business you were suckered! (And judging by your normal
screed, it's typical of a brainless "old American micro-'manager'" that's
over 70.)

Wake up and smell the coffee, Will. People live to enjoy.

If they speak otherwise, that's /their/ loss, not the aggregate's.

ObTopic: I enjoyed working with my Hispanic cow orkers all those years in my
restaurants. I can't tell you the number of weddings, baptisms, and
every-day meals that I LOVED being invited to; talk about a zest for life!

The Ranger
Douglas S. Ladden
2003-09-27 04:36:54 UTC
Permalink
The Terran carbon-based unit designating itself as "The Ranger"
Post by The Ranger
ObTopic: I enjoyed working with my Hispanic cow orkers all those
years in my restaurants. I can't tell you the number of weddings,
baptisms, and every-day meals that I LOVED being invited to; talk
about a zest for life!
Though I'm not quite sure what a "cow orker" is, *grin*, I can
definitely agree that Mexicans do have a zest for life, and definitely
know how to throw and enjoy a good party!

--Douglas
Thurman
2003-10-03 03:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas S. Ladden
The Terran carbon-based unit designating itself as "The Ranger"
Post by The Ranger
ObTopic: I enjoyed working with my Hispanic cow orkers all those
years in my restaurants. I can't tell you the number of weddings,
baptisms, and every-day meals that I LOVED being invited to; talk
about a zest for life!
Though I'm not quite sure what a "cow orker" is, *grin*, I can
definitely agree that Mexicans do have a zest for life, and definitely
know how to throw and enjoy a good party!
Cow orkers are similar to pig orkers, but taller.

(The devil made me type that).
Douglas S. Ladden
2003-10-03 05:47:43 UTC
Permalink
The Terran carbon-based unit designating itself as Thurman
Post by Thurman
Post by Douglas S. Ladden
The Terran carbon-based unit designating itself as "The Ranger"
Post by The Ranger
ObTopic: I enjoyed working with my Hispanic cow orkers all those
years in my restaurants. I can't tell you the number of weddings,
baptisms, and every-day meals that I LOVED being invited to; talk
about a zest for life!
Though I'm not quite sure what a "cow orker" is, *grin*, I can
definitely agree that Mexicans do have a zest for life, and
definitely know how to throw and enjoy a good party!
Cow orkers are similar to pig orkers, but taller.
Hmm, this must be a Tolkien reference I am unfamiliar with. Also
an odd spelling of Orc, maybe it's a Brit thing. Gonna look it up. My
my, look what I found about "cow orkers":

http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/c/cow_orker.html
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CowOrker

--Douglas
Linda
2003-10-01 02:05:02 UTC
Permalink
"A1 WBarfieldsr" <***@HOT.rr.com> wrote in message news:PU_cb.113836$***@twister.austin.rr.com...
I'm sorry Wayne, I see your point in the way workers go about their duties
in Mexico. Maybe that is why the big industries are not in Mexico.

[demented rambling deleted-who would want to go through all *that* again?]

Hmm..lots of industries in Mexico...almost everything I buy says "made in
Mexico"
--
**************************************************
Visit Arnold's comprehensive new website to find
his views on restoring confidence and stability to
California.

It's time to return California to the people!
Join Arnold
http://www.joinarnold.com/





Help Save our Driver's Licenses
http://www.saveourlicense.com/new-home.htm

Linda
Karen O'Mara
2003-09-26 20:49:29 UTC
Permalink
"Wayne Lundberg" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3rKcb.158567$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
[snip soapbox]
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.
Your generalizations are not fair to Mexicans, Americans and the
Mexican-American relationship, if you ask me.

Everyone is different, everyone begins with a baby step, and sometimes
it takes generations to make additional steps. It doesn't make anyone
wrong or ignorant to view another culture in any way that they may
find as appreciation.

Karen
Wayne Lundberg
2003-09-26 22:22:54 UTC
Permalink
I think you are confusing my message with the blow-hard A1.

Wayne
Post by Karen O'Mara
[snip soapbox]
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think about
it.
Your generalizations are not fair to Mexicans, Americans and the
Mexican-American relationship, if you ask me.
Everyone is different, everyone begins with a baby step, and sometimes
it takes generations to make additional steps. It doesn't make anyone
wrong or ignorant to view another culture in any way that they may
find as appreciation.
Karen
Shelora
2003-09-29 04:17:27 UTC
Permalink
As the only Canadian contributor (or admitting Cdn.), there are a few
things I wish to say regarding this whole piece. t
What I'm going to do is just bring up my thoughts while reading
through all the messages listed.
Firstly, i want to say having spent time in the U.S. and seeing what
kind of print and television news media you have access to, I'm amazed
that you have any idea that there is any other cultures or countries
existing around you. You are sadly misformed that you are the centre
of the universe and I feel sorry for you that in this day and age, you
don't take the time to research other forms of print media.

Re: factory jobs
Those lucrative factory jobs in Mexico are fastly declining as
historically U.S and Canada lost factory jobs to Mexico because of
cheap labour (see any info on Nike), now those jobs are being
transferred to China. I wouldn't blame anyone trying to find a better
life in the U.S. or Canada. Remember you are a country as we are in
Canada,founded on immigrants and our ancestories tried their best to
extinguish the indigenous people.
If myself or my family were losing their jobs once again because of
cheaper labour elsewhere, yes, I would sneak across any border that
would promise me or my family a better way of life.
We have any inundation of Dollar Stores here in Canada and everything
is made in China and is very, very cheap.
Ever heard of labour conditions in China????
Maybe you were conscious when labour condtions in Mexico where any
issue and publicized and how big corporate conglomerates were
pressured to make changes???? You don't perhaps see a corillation
between that information and that the switch to factories in China????

Re: what autombiles are assembled in Mexico?
I urge you to read labels and pay attention. The new Volkswagon was
assembled or even made in Mexico. The Korean Atos, manufactured in
Mexico, under or affliated with Dodge, is super popular but due to
some weird law is targeted only for the Latin American market.

Re: doing business in Mexico
Having had a retail store for five years, my husband and I studied
Mexican Spanish and precisely focussing on that. What was so
enlightening was that when introducing yourself to a prospective
client, was that you talked about family, yourselves, the weather,
then had lunch and a few drinks, THEN, you talked about business.
Totally opposite than our North American Attention Deficeit Approach -
introduction, let's see the product, how much is it, can we do a
deal?, does it see and how soon can we get it?
Re: Politics
Hasn't anyone of you in the U.S. read about the failed World Trade
Talks in Cancun recently?!!!!!!!!!!
How corn farmers in Mexico are getting shafted by U.S. subsisties to
U. S. corn farmers!!!!!!!!!
How big conglomerites like MonSAnto want to elliminate things like
heirloom and heritage varieties of corn and other vegetables to a
streamlined, across the board style of food production that is
controlled only by them and their chemically produced seeds?????
We have got to wake up and protect these incredible food cultures of
the world.
Has anyone heard of the Slow Food society started in Italy? Yes, even
in Mexico City there is a convivium to save some of Mexico's heirloom
foods and dishes.
Thats it for now.
Shelora
Post by Wayne Lundberg
I think you are confusing my message with the blow-hard A1.
Wayne
Post by Karen O'Mara
[snip soapbox]
Post by Wayne Lundberg
Remember: in the
US you eat in order to live, in Mexico we live in order to eat. Think
about
Post by Karen O'Mara
Post by Wayne Lundberg
it.
Your generalizations are not fair to Mexicans, Americans and the
Mexican-American relationship, if you ask me.
Everyone is different, everyone begins with a baby step, and sometimes
it takes generations to make additional steps. It doesn't make anyone
wrong or ignorant to view another culture in any way that they may
find as appreciation.
Karen
Vilco (out)
2003-09-29 10:07:54 UTC
Permalink
"Shelora" ha scritto
Post by Shelora
Hasn't anyone of you in the U.S. read about the failed World
Trade
Post by Shelora
Talks in Cancun recently?!!!!!!!!!!
How corn farmers in Mexico are getting shafted by U.S.
subsisties to
Post by Shelora
U. S. corn farmers!!!!!!!!!
Same here in Europe, with regard to african corn farmers.
Post by Shelora
Has anyone heard of the Slow Food society started in Italy?
Yes, even
Post by Shelora
in Mexico City there is a convivium to save some of Mexico's
heirloom
Post by Shelora
foods and dishes.
Hey, you're from Canada? Listen to this:
We can not export Parma Ham to Canada because a canadian sucker
has patented that name.
Enjoy the imitations, or tell this sucker to f... off.

Vilco
Shelora
2003-09-30 00:31:21 UTC
Permalink
Don't worry Vilco, that outrage won't last long. We will fight to the
finish for the right to eat Italian Parma Ham.
S
Post by Vilco (out)
"Shelora" ha scritto
Post by Shelora
Hasn't anyone of you in the U.S. read about the failed World
Trade
Post by Shelora
Talks in Cancun recently?!!!!!!!!!!
How corn farmers in Mexico are getting shafted by U.S.
subsisties to
Post by Shelora
U. S. corn farmers!!!!!!!!!
Same here in Europe, with regard to african corn farmers.
Post by Shelora
Has anyone heard of the Slow Food society started in Italy?
Yes, even
Post by Shelora
in Mexico City there is a convivium to save some of Mexico's
heirloom
Post by Shelora
foods and dishes.
We can not export Parma Ham to Canada because a canadian sucker
has patented that name.
Enjoy the imitations, or tell this sucker to f... off.
Vilco
William Jennings
2003-10-08 06:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shelora
As the only Canadian contributor (or admitting Cdn.), there are a few
things I wish to say regarding this whole piece. t
What I'm going to do is just bring up my thoughts while reading
through all the messages listed.
Firstly, i want to say having spent time in the U.S. and seeing what
kind of print and television news media you have access to, I'm amazed
that you have any idea that there is any other cultures or countries
existing around you. You are sadly misformed that you are the centre
of the universe and I feel sorry for you that in this day and age, you
don't take the time to research other forms of print media.
Re: factory jobs
Those lucrative factory jobs in Mexico are fastly declining as
historically U.S and Canada lost factory jobs to Mexico because of
cheap labour (see any info on Nike), now those jobs are being
transferred to China. I wouldn't blame anyone trying to find a better
life in the U.S. or Canada. Remember you are a country as we are in
Canada,founded on immigrants and our ancestories tried their best to
extinguish the indigenous people.
If myself or my family were losing their jobs once again because of
cheaper labour elsewhere, yes, I would sneak across any border that
would promise me or my family a better way of life.
We have any inundation of Dollar Stores here in Canada and everything
is made in China and is very, very cheap.
Ever heard of labour conditions in China????
Maybe you were conscious when labour condtions in Mexico where any
issue and publicized and how big corporate conglomerates were
pressured to make changes???? You don't perhaps see a corillation
between that information and that the switch to factories in China????
Re: what autombiles are assembled in Mexico?
I urge you to read labels and pay attention. The new Volkswagon was
assembled or even made in Mexico. The Korean Atos, manufactured in
Mexico, under or affliated with Dodge, is super popular but due to
some weird law is targeted only for the Latin American market.
Re: doing business in Mexico
Having had a retail store for five years, my husband and I studied
Mexican Spanish and precisely focussing on that. What was so
enlightening was that when introducing yourself to a prospective
client, was that you talked about family, yourselves, the weather,
then had lunch and a few drinks, THEN, you talked about business.
Totally opposite than our North American Attention Deficeit Approach -
introduction, let's see the product, how much is it, can we do a
deal?, does it see and how soon can we get it?
Re: Politics
Hasn't anyone of you in the U.S. read about the failed World Trade
Talks in Cancun recently?!!!!!!!!!!
How corn farmers in Mexico are getting shafted by U.S. subsisties to
U. S. corn farmers!!!!!!!!!
How big conglomerites like MonSAnto want to elliminate things like
heirloom and heritage varieties of corn and other vegetables to a
streamlined, across the board style of food production that is
controlled only by them and their chemically produced seeds?????
We have got to wake up and protect these incredible food cultures of
the world.
Has anyone heard of the Slow Food society started in Italy? Yes, even
in Mexico City there is a convivium to save some of Mexico's heirloom
foods and dishes.
Thats it for now.
Shelora
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
Everything you said is true, no doubt about it. The hard edge of reality
requires a certain blur so we don't go in the kitchen and cut our heads off.
This is why Mexico invented Tequila!

Here is something I know a little about and saved for no good reason:

C IUDAD ACUÑA, Mexico Juan Tovar Santos, an assembly- line worker
in this border city, will not forget the time he traveled to
Alcoa's annual shareholders meeting in Pittsburgh and confronted
the chief executive about working conditions in Alcoa factories
here.

After Paul H. O'Neill, the Alcoa chief executive who became
President Bush's treasury secretary last month, trumpeted the
company's growing profits, Mr. Tovar stepped to a microphone. At
the time Mr. Tovar, who was earning about $6 a day, described Alcoa
managers so stingy that they stationed a janitor at bathroom doors
to limit workers to just three pieces of toilet paper. He also
recounted an incident in which more than 100 workers had been
overcome by fumes from a gas leak and taken to hospitals.

Mr. O'Neill, stunned by the descriptions, defended conditions in
Ciudad Acuña. "Our plants in Mexico are so clean they can eat off
the floor," he said.

"That's a lie," Mr. Tovar shot back, speaking in Spanish through an
interpreter. And he produced news clippings describing the
hospitalization of his co-workers from the gas leak.

After Mr. O'Neill's own investigation determined that the chief
executive of one of Alcoa's operations had covered up the leak, Mr.
O'Neill dismissed him and began to improve conditions at the eight
Acuña plants owned by Alcoa Fujikura Ltd., an Alcoa joint venture
with a Japanese company. Today, Alcoa pays wages that are among
Acuña's highest.

Still, since that meeting in 1996, tensions have continued to flare
in this city across from Del Rio, Tex. There have been difficult
meetings between Alcoa workers and managers to discuss pay,
benefits and bathroom breaks. There was a confrontation last
October in a factory parking lot in which Acuña police officers
lobbed tear gas at disgruntled workers.

In Acuña, as in other border settlements, Mexican workers earn such
miserable wages and American companies pay such minimal taxes that
its schools are a shambles, its hospital crumbling, its trash
collection slapdash, and its sewage lines collapsed. Half of
Acuña's 150,000 residents now use backyard latrines.

Over the years, Mexico and its people came to accept these
conditions in return for steady jobs. But now everyone from Mexican
tax officials to environmental experts in both countries are
debating the rules, written and unwritten, under which the mostly
American corporations have operated on the border. There is rising
concern that as factories making everything from sneakers to
televisions have spread through the developing world, labor rights
and environmental standards have often been overlooked.

"Acuña is a disgrace," said Javier Villarreal Lozano, a Mexican
historian who directs a government-financed cultural institute in
Coahuila, the state that includes Acuña. "A hundred years ago, U.S.
employers would have been ashamed of these conditions. Henry Ford's
workers living in cardboard boxes? He'd never have tolerated it."

Executives now say Alcoa recognizes that its responsibilities in
Mexico may not end at the industrial park gates.

In an interview last month, Robert S. Hughes II, Alcoa Fujikura's
chairman and chief executive, said Alcoa's wages were among Acuña's
highest, which local officials confirmed. The average wage for a
48-hour week at Alcoa's Acuña plants is $83, the company says. The
Border Workers Committee, a group that has represented laborers in
Acuña, put the average wage at $70.

Desribing Alcoa's environmental and safety practices here as
"world-class," Mr. Hughes said the company bases its policies on
"some very clear values around people." But he acknowledged that
Acuña's crisis is troubling, and said Alcoa may step up its efforts
at corporate philanthropy.

"You're asking me, `do you like what you see when you drive through
some of these residential areas and I've done this in Acuña, the
same thing in Brazil, in Bangkok, in China, and the issue you're
raising is important," Mr. Hughes said. "I don't think Alcoa can
solve all the ills of Mexico, but we're trying to do what's right."

A No-Union Tradition

After Mexico's government began offering tax-exempt status to
border assembly plants in the late 1960's, Jesús María Ramón
Valdez, a son of the man who dominated Acuña politics for decades,
began to bulldoze the family's sagebrush tracts into the city's
first industrial parks and to invite foreign corporations to set up
factories here known as maquiladoras. At first, many American
executives were reticent, Mr. Ramón Valdez recalled in a recent
interview.

"They said they didn't want to deal with Mexico as far as labor
unions," said Mr. Ramón Valdez, who was elected Acuña's mayor in
the early 1980's. To allay those fears, he said, he gave a
financial stake in the industrial parks to a top local labor
official. That has kept union organizers away from Acuña's plants
ever since, Mr. Ramón Valdez said. "I've always managed the
situation so that there are zero unions."

When Acuña began inviting American corporations south, Alcoa was
producing automotive wiring systems at plants in two Mississippi
towns, said Jack D. Jenkins, an Alcoa executive who works with Mr.
Hughes at Alcoa Fujikuri's headquarters in the prosperous Nashville
suburb of Brentwood, Tenn. Taiwanese and other Asian competitors
were beginning to produce wiring components more cheaply than Alcoa
could in the United States, Mr. Jenkins said. "For us it was either
move to Mexico or cease to exist," he said.

Alcoa built the first of its Acuña factories in 1982. Its arrival
coincided with a frenzy of construction in Acuña as subsidiaries of
many other American corporations, including General Electric and
Allied Signal, started up maquiladora (pronounced
mah-kee-lah-DOH-rah) manufacturing operations here.

When the foreign corporations began arriving in the 1970's, Acuña
was a sleepy Rio Grande settlement of 40,000 residents. Its
population exploded as thousands of dirt farmers and out-of-work
laborers streamed to Acuña from elsewhere in Mexico. With nowhere
to live, many built makeshift shelters on vacant lands, a process
that continues today. Hundreds of squatters even seized a railroad
siding, building shanties on the tracks.

By the 1990's, Acuña was growing faster than any other city in
northern Mexico, census officials said. Last year's census counted
110,388 residents in Acuña, but state and local officials called
that a gross undercount, estimating Acuña's population in the range
of 150,000 to 180,000. The city now has 60 plants.

Despite the population explosion in Acuña, there have frequently
been more jobs than workers. So employers sent recruiters
throughout Mexico to bring workers north.

A Struggle for Housing

One recruit was Isidro Esquivel Sánchez, who grew up in a desert
town 350 miles south. In 1996 he was 21 and out of work when an
Alcoa manager drove through, shouting with a loudspeaker about a
better life in Acuña. It sounded good, Mr. Esquivel recalled, and
he, his 19-year-old wife and two teenage siblings boarded an Alcoa
bus.

When the convoy arrived in Acuña, the Esquivels and other recruits
were dumped out in the central plaza on a Friday night and told to
fend for themselves until Monday, when Alcoa's employment offices
would open. Many of the bewildered workers slept on park benches; a
kind Acuña woman let the Esquivels sleep on her floor, Mr. Esquivel
said.

Mr. Hughes said that he doubted that Alcoa workers could have been
treated so shabbily. "If this ever occurred it is a clear violation
of the way we want to run our company," he said in the interview in
a San Antonio hotel. An aide to Mr. Hughes acknowledged, however,
that Alcoa provides no accommodations for recruits, instead asking
them to pledge before the trip north that they have relatives who
can put them up in Acuña.

Mr. Esquivel eventually got a job lugging boxes of parts to an
Alcoa assembly line. He has lost all illusion that he has found a
better life. "They work us like donkeys, and we come back to this,"
he said one evening, at the one-room, dirt-floor hovel with a rear
outhouse that is home to him and his family.

Still, the Esquivels can say they have a house. Óscar Chávez Día=
z,
who worked for Alcoa until late last year, lives with his wife,
Nelba, in the rusting carcass of a school bus.

They keep their clothes in a pile where the driver's seat used to
be, and Mr. Chavez has installed a tiny three-burner stove and
refrigerator beyond the bed, near the rear emergency door. He
strapped an air conditioner to a side window to little effect; the
bus still heats up like an oven in the sweltering summer sun. In
winter it is an icebox.

Mr. Chávez bathes standing on his bus's front steps, ladling water
from a bucket. The water comes from a spigot out front. It is
undrinkable because the water filtration plant, which takes its
water from the Rio Grande, was built almost 40 years ago, and
cannot come close to providing clean water for the area's swelling
population.

During an interview in October, Mr. Chávez showed a reporter pay
stubs indicating that his weekly Alcoa take-home pay was $60. He
said he spent about $11 for bottled drinking water. About $5 went
to rent the bus, $20 for electricity and $10 for busses and taxis,
he said. (He has no car.) There was little left for food or
clothing. His wife, who worked in another Acuña plant stitching
leather seats for Chevrolet Corvettes, earned about the same as her
husband. She was spending about $40 a week on their groceries, Mr.
Chavez said.

Dr. Ruth A. Rosenbaum, a social economist based in Hartford,
studied the purchasing power of Mexican workers in 11 border cities
last year. She calculated that even using Mr. Chavez's wages to buy
only the cheapest products available in Acuña, he had to work
nearly a week last fall to outfit his son, Raúl, 6, for school, 16
hours to earn enough to buy the cheapest sneakers, 12 hours for a
bookbag, 9 hours for a pair of boy's pants, 3 hours for a little
white shirt and 4 hours for notebooks and pencils.

"You study these wages for a while and it makes you sick to your
stomach," Dr. Rosenbaum said.

Support From the North

Two American church groups, the American Friends Service Committee
and the Congregation of Benedictine Sisters, have been pressing for
better treatment of Alcoa's Mexican workers. In 1996, they helped
Mr. Tovar, then 30 and earning less than $35 a week, to travel to
Pittsburgh for the annual Alcoa meeting.

When Mr. O'Neill, then Alcoa's chief executive, heard of the plans
to bring a worker to the meeting, he telephoned Susan Mika, a
Benedictine Sister, in San Antonio.

" `Are you bringing workers from Mexico up to our annual meeting?'
O'Neill asked me," Sister Mika recalled recently. "He was
screaming. He was very upset."

But days later, using the Benedictine Congregation's ownership of
Alcoa stock, Sister Mika helped Mr. Tovar enter the meeting. That
is when Mr. Tovar confronted Mr. O'Neill about Alcoa's treatment of
its Acuña workers, including the limits on toilet paper, which are
not uncommon in public buildings in Mexico but seemed degrading to
workers in the factory.

After that confrontation, Alcoa's toilet paper policy became more
generous, cafeterias were modernized, and other conditions
improved, Sister Mika and Alcoa workers said. Mr. O'Neill also
ordered a significant pay increase.

But worker discontent continued. Last spring, a dispute over
delayed paychecks in one Alcoa plant here sparked a brief work
stoppage. Weeks later, Mr. Hughes traveled to Acuña for a
face-to-face encounter with laborers in a downtown taco restaurant.
It was a rare meeting, as senior American executives almost never
go to Mexico to discuss complaints directly with workers.

Sixty laborers showed up straight from the assembly line to meet
Mr. Hughes and other Alcoa executives. Also present was Julia
Quiñónez, director of the Border Workers Committee.

Mr. Hughes, shirt sleeves rolled up and speaking through an
interpreter, promised that there would be no reprisals for workers
who spoke their minds. So they did, complaining that their pay was
barely sufficient to stave off starvation. Mr. Hughes reminded
workers that their compensation included not just wages, at that
time about $7 a day, but also free bus rides to work, a $4.85
weekly grocery coupon and other benefits.

One laborer asked why Alcoa's profit- sharing payments, required by
Mexican law, were so meager, especially as Acuña plants appear
profitable and Mr. O'Neill had exercised $33 million in stock
options beyond his $3 million salary in 1999. (Acuña workers said
Alcoa made profit-sharing payments of about $40 a worker last
year.) "The workers just told the truth about their lives," Ms.
Quiñónez recalled. "They were saying, `Look, we're not robots."'

Mr. Hughes promised to study and perhaps revise Alcoa's
compensation. Five months later, hundreds of workers grew impatient
waiting for answers, and walked out of two Acuña plants to protest
in an Alcoa parking lot. Acuña police surrounded them and fired
tear gas. The protests spread, and the company was forced to
negotiate, reinstating some fired workers. Scores of others quit,
accepting severance payments obligated by Mexican law. One was Mr.
Chávez, the worker living in the bus, who has since taken a job at
another factory at about the same wage.

In November, Alcoa completed its study, and Mr. Hughes announced
significant wage and benefit improvements. Mr. Tovar, who has
worked at Alcoa for nine years, said his daily wage rose from $6.70
to $8.50. With bonuses for perfect attendance, grocery coupons and
other benefits, his weekly compensation could now reach $90, he
said.

Ricardo Hernández, who has monitored Alcoa's practices in Acuña fo=
r
the American Friends Service Committee, commended Mr. Hughes in a
recent letter to him, while reporting that some Alcoa plant
managers have recently threatened workers who participated in the
October conflict.

A reporter who toured two of Alcoa's Acuña plants last month saw
workers soldering electrical components and weaving the
octopus-like wiring systems for automobiles along well-lit and
ventilated assembly lines. Cafeterias were clean, and workers wore
protective eyeglasses.

But despite Alcoa's wage increases and improvements in factory
conditions, its Acuña workers still live in a squalid grid of dirt
streets, rotting garbage and swamps of open sewage.

Perhaps no one understands the problem better than Acuña's current
mayor, Eduardo Ramón Valdez, a brother of the industrial park
developer. In an interview, he said his city needs huge investments
in potable water and paved streets. The fire department is
virtually broke, so Del Rio, its twin city in Texas, has several
times recently sent its fire trucks across the bridge, sirens
shrieking, into Acuña to extinguish fires. Acuña's 60-year-old
Social Security hospital, the basic health service for most factory
workers, is outdated and overwhelmed. It has 45 beds; the city
needs several times that many, he said.

And Acuña's 135 schools lack, well, nearly everything, the mayor
said. "Every week I get some new plea from our teachers," the mayor
said. "They need windows, toilets, drinking water. They want desks.
They want a flag. It's an endless list."

But Acuña's 2000 budget was $9 million, he said, which means the
city could spend just $60 on each resident. In contrast, the budget
of Del Rio, population 45,000, is $32 million, allowing for a per
capita expenditure of $777, 13 times as high.

Governments Short on Money Many experts blame the impoverishment on
the government, which for decades has spent the lion's share of tax
revenues in Mexico City. Mexico's new president, Vicente Fox, has
vowed to be more generous with cities and towns and has promised a
new focus on the border region's ills. Yet manufacturers along the
border are not contributing much to the overall tax pie, and some
officials have begun to question whether Mexico benefits from the
tax breaks given to foreign companies.

Mexico City and Washington agreed in 1999 on a modest increase in
the Mexican income taxes paid by American companies operating
duty-free assembly plants here, while cutting their United States
tax obligations by an equal amount, said Ricardo González Orta,
former President Ernesto Zedillo's director of tax policies.
Historically, he said, American corporations have vigorously
opposed increases in their Mexican taxes.

Asked how much Alcoa pays in taxes for its Acuña operations, a
spokeswoman said in a written statement that in 1999, Alcoa's Acuña
factories paid a $450,000 Coahuila state payroll tax, $7.8 million
to Mexico's Social Security system and $2.4 million in federal
taxes earmarked for low-cost housing. The statement appeared to
indicate that Alcoa paid no income, property, asset, import,
export, sales or value-added taxes that year in Acuña. The company
spokesman, Bonita A. Cersosimo, did not respond to requests for
clarification.

Alcoa's annual reports and other company documents suggest that
Alcoa Fujikura's operations in Mexico are quite profitable. In the
interview, Mr. Hughes declined to disclose the prices or profits
earned on the electrical systems manufactured in Acuña, calling
that proprietary information.

Alcoa donated a $50,000 ambulance to Acuña in 1998, and the
following year, with Ford Motor, donated $52,000 to build the
Ford-Alcoa elementary school, which has 300 students enrolled in
six grades.

Patricia Pérez, the lone teacher at the school during a reporter's
visit last month, complained that the roof leaks, windows fall out,
and no playground was built so that classrooms are surrounded by a
sea of mud. But conditions appeared no worse than at scores of
other broken-down Acuña schools.

In all, Alcoa donated some $170,000 to fund various Acuña civic
projects last year, including support for a riverside park, an
Alcoa spokeswoman said. "Wherever Alcoa operates around the world,
we take being a good corporate citizen seriously," Mr. Hughes said
in the interview. "We're wrestling right now with whether there's
more we should be doing around community support in places like
Acuña. Should we do more around housing, education, or health
care?"

The day after Mr. Hughes spoke in his Texas hotel room, a rooster's
crow awoke Mr. Tovar long before the sun in his two- room
mortar-block home in Acuña, where he shares a bed in a makeshift
kitchen with his wife, Arcelia. She boiled water for coffee and
fried some potatoes, wrapping them in flour tortillas for Mr.
Tovar's lunch.

A hug and a kiss later, he was in his battered pickup truck,
bumping across Acuña's rutted streets in a freezing drizzle. At an
intersection, police were ankle deep in mud, trying to unsnarl
traffic backed up behind a blocked drainage culvert. Mr. Tovar
swerved onto a side street, driving frantically to reach Alcoa's
Plant No. 5 before 7 a.m. He could not afford to lose his $3-
a-week punctuality bonus.

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